Mr. & Mrs. Fitzwilliam Darcy Discussion

Nancy, I am happy that you enjoyed my book. Thank you for that. I, however, am more than a "little confused" as to why you deem it inappropriate for a church library. Considering that God created man and woman, instituted the sacred bond of matrimony, devoted a significant portion of Scripture to discussing marriage and family, inspired the wisest man (Solomon) to write an entire book glorifying romantic and sexual love, and likened His relationship to His church as a groom to a bride, Christians should comprehend and welcome the themes of my novels more than anyone. In fact, of the several dozen Christian women I know both in my church and elsewhere who have read my novels and purchased them as gifts for others, including their younger daughters, NONE have been offended or considered the Saga inappropriate or out of line for God’s design of a healthy marriage. We, as Christians who fully know the beauty and purpose of marital love, should shout it from the rooftops! In my small way I am attempting to do just that.

Michaela, You mom is spot on! So happy you both enjoyed it. I really appreciate the positive feedback. Hope to see you joining with the Launch Fete for My Dearest Mr. Darcy. Mom too!

Thank you, Kate. I, obviously, agree wholeheartedly on what I feel most women would want to find in their marriages. As well as what I would imagine all readers of P&P would anticipate for Lizzy and Darcy. It is my great pleasure to present that possibility for lovers of Jane Austen.

IF – and this is a massively HUGE IF – a movie is ever made, I will be sure to let ya’all know! In fact, I am certain the shouts of joy would be heard across the globe! LOL! Anyone close personal friends with a producer in Hollywood? Ha!

HOORAH!! At least for Eastern time-
Now all I need is an all-night bookstore! Why oh why didn’t I preprder (she says as she kicks herself in the…)
Congratulations Sharon, No, Congratulations Us! You already know what happens next.

Alrighty then! Cindy has her list all ready! Whew.

1. Poor Lydia! The short answer is, no, I don’t hate Lydia at all. Essentially I found throughout all the saga that it was very hard to include everyone while keeping the focus on the Darcys. There are a TON of characters in Austen’s novel! OMG! I know folks have criticized the dearth of secondary character mentions, and I really did try, but it is very hard to give them all a moment in the sun. I had to pick and choose. This first novel especially suffered (from a certain point of view) in that it exclusively happened at Pemberley. As L &D travel away, more characters are included.

Wickham was only mentioned to shed light on Darcy’s childhood. I did decide early on that I was not going to go the JAFF cliched avenue of having Wickham reappear to cause trouble. That is why I created Orman. It isn’t that I refused to ever deal with Wickham and Lydia (and I do eventually, hint hint), but I did not want to do it then.

2. Suzy Orman – hahahaha…. That is great! No, not at all! Here is the story: Originally I gave the various inhabitants of Derbyshire names that belong to true ancestral families in the area. i.e. – Vernor = Vernon; Cole = Coke; Orman = Ormand, etc. I thought it was fun to do so. When I ended up decided to try the publishing route, and had made "Ormand" a villain, I figured it might possibly annoy any living ancestors if they stumbled across my story! So I changed the names.

3. Yes, Lizzy had met Col. Fitzwilliam at Rosings during her visit with Charlotte. Austen shows them chatting several times during walks and visits at Rosings. She hints strongly that they got on well. In the movie there is only the brief encounter. Presumably, as I wrote it, she would have met him a time or two after she and Darcy were engaged, at least at the wedding. But of course they would not be close friends as yet. That evolves over time in my Saga until eventually she and Richard are very close, as cousins would be.

On to your remarks: I might argue with the "most men" statement. While it is certainly true that finding willing partners for sex has never been all that difficult, paid or not, just because we know it was done does not mean it was a requisite or standard operating procedure! It isn’t like there was a law or something.

Glad you liked the duel! Yeah, I love those Conan sword and sorcery movies so would have LOVED to envision Darcy wielding a massive broadsword! But that just isn’t how it was done. In fact, the norm for those duels that were still occurring in those days despite the attempts to outlaw the practice was to use pistols. Not that swords weren’t used, so historically it was still accurate, but "pistols at dawn" was more common. But, if I was going to tackle a duel it had to be with swords! And give poor Orman a break – he was a nasty fellow but pretty tough! LOL!

Okay…here’re MY questions: /ahem

1. in Mr&MrsFD; you mentioned Jane a couple of times…and mentioned the others at home; but never once said "Lydia’s" name…and Wickham was mentioned 2-3 times.
Other than her being a true idiot; Do you dislike Lydia Bennett-Wickham, that much?

2. The "Marquis Orman"; devilishly compared to "self-titled" financial guru; Suzy Orman?? /perhaps

3. I faintly remember Elizabeth being introduced to Col. Fitzwilliam….but hadn’t they already met at Rosings? Whilst Elizabeth visited Charlotte Lucas-Collins (still shivers thinking of Mr. Collins)

On your questions of:

Point 1 – What did you think of Mr. Darcy as a virgin?

Odd, most men of that era was either initiated by a housemaid; woman of ill repute in their "-shire"; or taken to Ton/town by their fathers to a ‘bordello’.
Sweet–esp. in this day and age! Many of our young people, where I live, have taken the ‘silver ring oath’ for abstinance before marriage.

Point 2 – Did the duel work for you and keep you on the edge of your seat?

Oh I loved that Darcy chose short swords; not only did he give the little pip-squeek half a chance. He was proper to a fault (actually to an-‘aside’). If he’d chose long swords; it would have been HILARIOUS imho. I can see little the little worm dancing all around the grounds trying to balance the sword! Imagine Bugs Bunny and the "Singing Sword"!

Sharon,

I hope it’s ok that I’m posting this a day later? It was very busy in my house yesterday and didn’t get a chance to add my thoughts.

On Mr. Darcy being a virgin: I thought it was fitting and appropriate that Darcy had remained a virgin until he married, due to his character, high morals and upbringing. Indeed, he told Lizzy that he did not approve of Wickham and his ilk’s disrepectful behavior with women, as he (Darcy) said his Father "raised him better than that." I especially liked how you wrote how his admitted he didn’t consiously plan to stay celebate, however the way his life panned out especially after his father suddenly died and left him with a great responsibility, he had alot of disipline and fortitude and he wanted to save himself for "the one." So, no I was not very surprised he remained chaste until marriage and I thought better of him because of that decision.

As far as the duel went, I so enjoyed reading that and was on the edge of my seat. You did such a wonderful job with this Sharon, I could really "see" it happening as if I was there myself, and also thought Darcy very brave, cool and capable of winning to defend his beloved’s honor. Well done you!

Julie C.

OOPS!!!!! Sorry Sharon. I guess I should have pulled the book out for a refresher! One good point; now all your fans won’t have to wait much longer to read my slip up. Sigh. Darcy & Lizzy – hmmmmmmmm!

Esther

Hey Esther, I guess I did a few more flashback moments than I remembered! Ha!! Of course, the ones that occur at Darcy House are in Loving Mr. Darcy. You have inadvertently given a sneak peak! As you said, you have read it so many times you have it memorized. I do the same thing, actually, sometimes having to think real hard in what book a certain event of scene occurred!

Betty Jo, I am so glad you brought up the historic significance of giving hair. Truthfully I cannot remember if I had uncovered that detail when I thought up the idea of Lizzy’s gift. After so long and so much information my mind gets a bit cloudy on the timeline! LOL! But it is very true that the gifting of hair was very common. We see shades of that today in how we keep the first clippings from our baby’s hair. It is a very personal relic. I do remember clearly that when I was researching the concept of wedding bands for men I found numerous references to lovers creating rings out of hair that would be worn by both sexes. And I also know I have seen the gesture in movies, although my mind is blanking on naming one. Maybe someone with better recall than me may think of it!

And feel free to bring up any topic you want! That is the whole point of this discussion.

I love the "prime bull" reference too. Not sure if you have read my confession before, but when I first wrote that part I called him the "prime steer." Luckily a kind person pointed out that a steer is a castrated bull! LOL! NOT the image I was going for. I may live in the country but I know zip about farm animals. 🙂

Thank you SO much, Jana! I am thrilled to hear from you and very happy you loved my book. And thanks for sharing your personal experience. There are MANY couples where one or both remained chaste before the wedding. Others that perhaps weren’t virgins, but waited until married to take that step in their relationship. I know quite a few personally, my own included, as well as folks who have written me. It is not the oddity some think and the sexual aspect of the marriage is just fine for not having "practiced" or receiving that "education" prior. Don’t mean to preach or say it must be so, only saying that it CAN be so.

Glad I tricked you, Diane! A writer’s job well done!

I originally was not intending to do a flashback, feeling that my goal was to move the story forward. Up until that point I had rarely delved into movie moments. But someone had once asked me if I had ever thought of what took place in between the sunrise proposal and Mr. Bennet’s approval, and the truth was that I had! I just did not feel that it fit into the story anywhere, so it was left tucked away into my brain for many months with no purposeful intention to ever write it.

Then as they finally found the time to visit Darcy’s grotto (as I knew they would eventually) the scene and story just naturally flowed. Suddenly I saw it as the perfect place to recount what happened. I did not even plan it until Darcy sees the sunlight flickering over Lizzy’s face as she slept. My personal vision of what transpired after the sun rises on their proposal, that beautiful moment in Joe Wright’s movie, came back in a flash! I knew it would blend in perfectly with what was only intended to be a sensual, refreshing interlude in the glade after the previous trials.

I wrote An Intimate Conversation as a short story, primarily to tell of Darcy’s past and why he was a virgin. I later incorporated it into the main story. So it was a very early vision of Darcy! Even then I loved the concept of this normally shy, stoic, reserved, arrogant man who was undone by the emotions of being captured by love.

The difference between breeches and trousers is just the length. By late Regency breeches were gradually declining in popularity for the mid-calf pantaloons and the longer trousers. And yes, it was largely due to the increasing height of tall boots. But also because the longer pantaloons snugly fit those manly legs better!

Hi Seli! You know, I can never think of the lock of hair gift now without thinking of you and Roberto! And for those of you who do not know what I mean, go to the blog archives and click on "A Tale of True Love."

The lock of hair was just one of those mysterious ideas that pop into a writer’s head. My first reaction was much as Lizzy’s! It seemed silly and trite. I almost didn’t go ahead with the idea. But then I figured it fit the themes of my story with Darcy being the sentimental guy I had written him to be.

Thanks for the comments about the chapters leading up to the duel. I am proud of them, I must say. One critic said that was the end for her because I had made Darcy cry! All I could think was how sad that a person would consider it a deal breaker that a man cried when he thinks his beloved wife may die.

Melanie, I am sorry I forgot to address your question on research for the duel! Yes indeed it took a great deal of research. First into the legalities and history of dueling in that age. Then into the weaponry that would have been used. Then into the art of fencing to make the sword play realistic. I pored over my fantasy novels, reading sword fighting scenes, and rewatched a number of movies to get the feel of the movements. I wrote an essay a while back on some of the facts as I learned them. It is titled "En Garde!" and can be found in the archives or by a website search.

I have alot of favorite parts!! But the one that is the closet to my heart is the pretend grotto, anniversary surprise, when Lizzy gives him a satin pouch with her braided hair and she tells him he will have a small part of her with him even if she is not there. Ohhh I loved it and so my question is "Was it something you read in a novel or a family tradition. It seems so wonderful. My husband, of course, still has my string of hair in his wallet. LOL

I loved the duel and all the chapters leading to it, the suspense, the worry, Darcy actually showing how very human he is and how close to his sister he is. The love the Darcy has for Lizzy really comes thru in these chapters leading to the duel.

Thank you Sharon

Hi Diane! Thanks for mentioning the humorous bits. Humor is a big part of my story as I believe it is a normal part of life. We like to smile and laugh, even stoic people like Mr. Darcy. The specific moments you mentioned were some of my favorites. I actually dreamt the scene where Darcy’s arm falls asleep on their first night of sleeping together. I woke with this scene and his internal musings crystal clear in my head. I think it may have been the first time that happened for me.

Darcy being a man who kept mementoes was another spontaneous idea. Originally I was only going to have the books and his journals in the locked cabinet. Then the idea of Lizzy finding tangible artifacts of his youth occurred to me. I loved the idea, but it sure took me a long while to think of all the items!

Indeed I do think of Darcy as the exception, in all ways. But again, not in a bizarre, weirdo kind of way. I think there are more men like him out there then the doomsayers of the world would have us believe. Which leads me to Melanie’s question….

How rare would his virginity have been in that time period? Difficult to answer then or now. Certainly as a culture we are far more sexually active now than in the past, but does that mean that EVERY young man and woman have lost their virginity at an early age? Today we have polls and so on to give us some statistics, but I don’t think they had an 18th century equivalent of Masters & Johnson going around taking polls! Yet in the years since such statistics have been kept we have seen a frightening increase in all areas of sexual activity. Thus, one logical conclusion is that frankly explicit sex outside of marriage would have occurred even LESS some 200 years ago.

Yes there were brothels and yes it was not unusual for men of wealth especially to take advantage of lower class women. Sex has always been around and has always been enjoyed. Arranged marriages were very common so keeping a mistress that a man actually liked and WANTED to be with was also common. Yet that does not equally translate to meaning that every man was a wanton who slept with everything in a skirt. The bottom line is that I can’t really answer your question with facts or data. I doubt a man of 28 being a virgin was the norm, but I still maintain that given the logic applied and Darcy’s nature, it isn’t a bizarre extreme.

I hardly know where to start…

There were several humorous parts that are favorites for me. Darcy’s arm falling asleep, Lizzy commenting on Darcy’s feet, Darcy’s thought that he couldn’t send a letter after their first spat, when Lizzy calls him "cute" at the ball, and trying out the books…

The treasure cabinet was another favorite idea for me, especially the first journal.

All of the dancing scenes were great, especially since Lizzy thought Darcy did not like to dance. And then the dance when they got home from the ball… whew!

And regarding Darcy’s virginity, I love that you made him the exception rather than the rule for men of his time (or any time really).

So, some specific questions for you:
Is a Ferrier statue similar to a Remington? Apparently all the men knew what it was.

What does a second do at the duel?

What sort of underclothes did they wear? I figure the women wore a shift but did either sex wear what we would think of as underwear such as panties and briefs?

Good morning ladies! Thanks for getting the discussion going! Remember that we can take the discussion any direction. The 2 points I brought up were to get it started, and I REALLY love hearing everyone’s opinion, but we do not have to stay with those 2 topics. But, since that is how we are beginning, I’ll share a few thoughts of my own! However, do not let that influence anyone else chiming in, even to disagree.

The duel: This was my first foray into writing action! The few brief arguments, previous encounters with Orman, and Lizzy’s crazed dash through the woods helped prepare me for writing a more dramatic sequence. But the duel took it to that higher level. Or at least I hoped to do so. I wanted the reader to be able to SEE what was happening; every parry and thrust. I wanted to convey the emotion and physical pain. And, of course, keep it historically and logistically accurate. Although I knew Darcy would be the victor, I did not want it to be comically easy.

Betty Jo makes a good point in her question, "Did his passion cloud his judgment?" The logical answer is yes, of course he did! I probably let him off too easy, in retrospect, as Lizzy probably should have berated him harder! But it is what a "real man" is expected to do, at least in the typical romance novel and historic hero way.

Was that a liberal stray from the man of restraint I had painted? Perhaps. I also created a man of passion, but his passions rarely override his intellect. It was a bit of a dilemma for me. In the end I felt it was too entertaining an opportunity to pass up, even if it could be argued that Darcy would not do such a thing. It came down to an artist’s creative license although I did try very hard to make it a logical decision under the extreme circumstances. Additionally, opening this door of having Darcy be a strong man of action led me down several paths, as you will see in future books.

There were 2 reasons Orman lived: 1) I just cannot see Darcy killing anyone if he has a choice. Not in the cold-blooded way that it would have been with Orman totally at his mercy. But remember that comment for a later date. *hint hint* 2) A good villain should never be wasted!

I CAN"T WAIT!!!
When I first read TSBO I really enjoyed it. So I started reading more fanfic on the web. Literally hundreds of stories later I STILL like your (Our) William & Lizzy the BEST. It’s my absolute favorite.
Will was a virgin by CHOICE. Anyone can take the wide easy path but it takes self control to go against the grain. It’s the one choice a person can make, no matter how difficult the temptation, male or female to have control over.
A few points that I love about TSBO . We see that Darcy doesn’t mind getting his hands dirty. He knows that his wealth has its limits. He loves to show his love for his wife, friends and family in small ways as well as grand. He seems to be a real person. I don’t think Lizzy would have settled for anyone less.
As for the duel…He had the power and money to have it "taken care of" but he made the choice to defend his wife, his family , and his honor himself. Did his passion cloud his judgment? Ya just gotta love that man!
Sharon you said September would be here before we know it…It’s Here…YEAH!
I CAN"T WAIT!

Congrats,
Betty Jo